Haters Gonna Hate

NOTE: This article is a total opinion piece from the author, Ray Walters.

“seems like #teamdouche was VERY appropriately named. go code for steve jobs or bill gates. this is android. we are a community #fail”

“Team douche are exactly that douches. They are responsible for driving other good developers out of xda. They want a monopoly on opensource software that they didn’t write. They are the main reason I dropped Android.”

“I hate to say it, but everyday i’m becoming less and less a fan of CM & the entire TeamDouche attitude..”im better than u…””

If there is anything that I have learned from helping to run the Big Android BBQ, is that people are nothing like I thought they were from my interactions with them online.

I went into the event with preconceived notions about everyone that I knew was going to be there.  I follow most of them on twitter, or have seen or heard their opinions about Android and the community in general.  I am pleased to say that for the most part, people were nothing like their online personas.  There were a few that confirmed my feelings for sure, (and I am sure that I confirmed a lot for people as well), but for the most part I was dead wrong about what people were really like.

I found myself very ashamed that I had made assumptions based on 140 character statements.  A twitter feed does not a person make.  When I look at the above quotes about Team Douche in particular, I cringe a bit, because they helped to form my opinion of the group without even having met them in person.  Oh sure, I use CM a ton on my G1 and am waiting for it to come on the Vibrant, but my opinion of the group as a whole was low.  I had decided that I would take the product they create and thank them for it, but simply consign myself to the fact that the people in Team Douche were, well, douchey.

I was wrong.

And while the people who said the above quotes may have some legitimate beef in their minds, they are too.

A disclaimer is appropriate here, since I know it is going to come up and I am going to get flamed for it.  In the face of full disclosure, yes, I was recently made a member of Team Douche.  An honorary member to be exact.  I am not a coder, developer or anything like that, nor do I claim to be.  I was brought in for other reasons (cooking food), and honestly I am glad I was because I have met some outstanding people who are part of this group, that I think get largely misunderstood.

Let’s lay this out there and get it done.  Team Douche is a front.  Plain and simple.  It is a front that started out as an ironic joke, and has become a necessity to allow the group to continue to work in a high mode of productivity in light of the attention the team gets.  It is a front that the team plays quite well, sometimes a bit too well, as I am sure some of you would agree.  But a front nonetheless.

I am sure many of you are totally screaming at me through you computer screens right now, wondering how in the world can I say that.  Very simply put, I have spent time within this group, have talked with many of them one on one, and have seen their passion for Android and the community as a whole through the hard work that they are constantly doing to make CM the best it can be.

Let’s talk about that work now for a minute.  This team of people who are “douches”, have a mentality of “we’re better than you”, and are “not about community” work on ROMS that get released to people for absolutely no compensation. They put hours upon hours into developing and building ROMS and while they do receive donations, this is not their full time job.  I know one of the guys in the team works two full time jobs, has a family with kids and still drops hours willingly on the CM project because he believes in it, and believes in helping the community move forward.  Sound like someone who is not about the community to you?

Let’s put ourselves in the shoes of Team Douche for a minute, not for a pity party, but for a real thought provoking exercise.  This is a good illustration because I hit this in my day job all the time.  Say you are making a free meal for a group of people, and you work HARD on it, working to make it just right and awesome for everyone.  You work day and night for a week planning, prepping and working.  The big day finally comes and you serve your meal.  You are excited to see what people are going to say, how much they are going to like it and appreciate what you did.  But instead, you have people coming up to complain that you forgot the salt and pepper, that it was not cooked they way they like, that you were missing ketchup or mustard, or the fact that someone got a larger portion.

Would that steal your joy and make you a bit grumpy?

Or, what if you were a bit behind on your times, and people had to wait an extra 30 minutes to get their free food, and let you know about it through complaints and gripes.  Even though the meal is free, people feel entitled.

This is what it honestly is like for the team behind CM6 sometimes.  Now there are a LOT of people who “get it”.  They get that this is a something they are getting for free, that a lot of work goes into it – work that they cannot do themselves.  They GET it.  But from the quotes above you can see that some people don’t get it, they don’t get the idea of CM6 and Team Douche.  What they want is what THEY want right now, and be damned to those who are going to stand in their way.

Is Team Douche perfect, and nicey nice?  Absolutely not.  Sometimes, on a PERSONAL level they deserve the Douche tag.  But as a group for what they are providing for the community, I don’t think there is any time that we can say that Team Douche is harmful to the Android family.  They are a group of people that will legitimately listen to someone’s idea or review their code suggestions, but simply do not have time to answer every question thrown at them.

Haters are always going to hate.  This is a fact of life.  There will always be people who dislike Team Douche, they will have some story about how one of the members hurt their feelings or did something to them in the electronic realm.  But here is the fact of the matter.

Team Douche produces one of the best Android ROMS out there.  They work hard for the community not because they are getting paid, not because they are looking to climb the corporate ladder somewhere, but because they see what the Android platform could be, and want to get it there.  They open doors that were previously closed by carriers and manufacturers, they raise G1’s from the grave.  All for NOTHING.

Perhaps it is time to lay off the comments folks.  If you got personal gripes with the people on the team, by all means, pursue them all you want.  But it is time to stop bashing the whole team because you were not allowed in, or they called you out for something you did.  Yep, they can be douches, but those douches work hard for the Android Community.

I have found that out first hand, and had my attitude changed about the group as a whole after the BBQ, much like the people behind the quotes below;

“I am calling you all out… #teamdouche is a front they are really all great people, much love for you all and can’t wait to see you again”

“It was AWESOME to meet the#teamDouche crew.. was awesome getting pwned by you guys, @Cyanogen was awesome to speak with, cool guy”

#TeamDouche is a lie!!!”

The mystique of Team Douche may be a lie, but the people behind it are not. They are a hardworking crew, bent on perfection for the Android platform.   If you have a chance to meet these guys someday, take it.  I can guarantee that you will have your mind changed.

  • I just tweeted this the other day!

    I agree with a lot of this. Wasn’t a big fan of some of the Team Douche guys ie; @Kmobs but after meeting and hanging with all of them I must say, they’re all pretty cool guys. A lot different than I expected (Cyanogen included).

    But the internets is funny like that. Someone you hate “online” whether it be Twitter or XDA could actually be pretty cool in real life and vice versa. Interacting with people face to face should be the only real deciding factor of your feelings toward them. And I learned that at the Big Android BBQ! <3


  • WhoCares

    So tired of hearing about the BBQ. Let it die already. Please.

    • Benji (TheDude)

      I love you WhoCares, even if you didn’t go to the BBQ.

      • attn1

        I think he just needs one of those bacon explosion deals I keep hearing so much about.

        • Benji (TheDude)

          I want more bacon explosion…gotta find out if ray can ship meat.

  • bob

    teamdouche is full of such douchebags because they lied theyre not douches!

  • lowlevelninja

    Personally, I prefer #TeamTurdSandwich

    • Team Turd Sandwich

      Best reply ever. As for the post, I feel like I just wasted 5 minutes of my life.

  • b9n3z

    I have and will always go head to head with members of #teamdouche and you know what I’m glad they are how they are. Honestly if it was up to me they should be more of a douche. They are the best thing ever for the Modding community. They push what people can do because they refuse to lose. They refuse to just be ok. There needs to be more “teams” out there. Also teamdouche does needs to go after other “devs” as a douche and live up to there name to prevent forums like xda filling up with copy/paste artist. So thank you teamdouche but please be more douche like…

    • Benji (TheDude)

      LOL, Bonez…i really do miss seeing you around…get on tinychat tonight after the podcast.

  • Word

    Although I could care less either way, I find it kind of funny that an “honorary member of team douche” is hating on haters who don’t like team douche.

    • attn1

      How was that hating?

  • ^ Haters gonna hate!

    Great article Ray. Couldn’t have said it better myself.

  • Scott

    I always suspected the Team Douche name to be a front. As a developer myself, I know what it is like to be constantly bombarded with questions regarding ETAs and feature requests for things that the requester really has no idea about what’s involved. Sometimes it is easier to put up a douchey front in order cut down on some of the bombardment.

    This stuff is hard, and is made harder when it isn’t your day job. I applaud these guys for the work they do. They are a great asset to the community.

  • Richard

    I have been following steve on twitter and using his roms since he started, though I’ve never met him, I would have to say he is a complete non douche. He’s responded to many of my tweets, helping me with things that he was probably sick of talking about. And I agree with the above, write your bbq piece and move on, its getting old hearing about a party I couldn’t go to

  • Jeagoss

    I will be talking about this bbq until next years bbq. Up until that time, I will refer to it as “bbq 2010”. I will not let this die because I like to constantly remind people that they missed something awesome. Maybe you’ll get in gear and go to “bbq 2011”. Maybe you’ll complain cause you can’t make it. I don’t know. I don’t care. I WILL TALK ABOUT IT CONSTANTLY.

    Great article Ray. Spot on.

  • Nobody Cares

    People need to stop saying they do this for free. I know for a fact (yes, for an absolute 100% fact since I heard it directly from the horse’s mouth) that @cyanogen gets some serious (yes, serious) coin in donations (I myself have donated six times in less than a year). And if you make me a meal that I don’t like or one that isn’t made correctly, you don’t get thanked for that. The reason people hate on the team is because they do the work “for the good of the community” and then demand that people kiss their feet for it. Devs like enom have never asked for anything in return and respect and understand that the people for whom the ROM is created are noobs, not other devs. From the perspective of the team, if you are not a member then you are obviously a bad coder. I’ve seen then rag on other devs just because they don’t code for the team. Team Douche has literally done exactly the opposite of what the open source community stands for. They have shut everyone else out. The sooner they realize that they are not developing for each other and that the people who use their product are mostly laymen, the better off everyone will be. It’s very easy to say that these people are the salt of the earth when you are on the inside. But the majority are not and feel slighted that they have supported them and donated and are treated like shit as a result. Nobody said they have to do this but once they chose to do so, they should treat people with the same respect they want from others.

    Even with all of this in mind I still am a regular donor and I’m not even using the ROM. I still believe that the code they are writing is extremely valuable to the community if not irreplaceable. And seriously. The BBQ was for a bunch of geeks who are finally happy that they are no longer getting beaten up in high school. It isn’t that interesting. I have like five BBQs a week.

    • Benji (TheDude)

      Nobody Cares what anonymous people have to say. I met Enom this weekend. He’s a super nice guy, and had nothing bad to say to me. We actually have great respect for what he does and consider him an asset to the community.

      I’d also like to see where we have asked people to kiss our feet. My feet are disguising, and I’d never want someone to put their mouth anywhere near them. It seems like what we have here is, failure to communicate.

      • @TheDude I’m still laughing. That feet comment in and of itself vindicates you, not that you need to.

        @kmobs I couldn’t agree more. Enom is an awesome dev.

    • @Nassergamez

      It called evolution….
      You start off small one person asking the right questions, work day and night on a goal, listening to others feedback, build upon build upon build. Than you start to gather a following. You invite people you’ll feel are skilled and may help. You work together on a common goal, yet you manage the whole thing because “this is your golden egg”. You run into less than desirable help which you’ll have to weed out, feedback becomes useless, people insult your builds all while still gathering a following. The work get time consuming you place a call for help, donations, more coders, general testers, tutorials. As time goes on your job changes you become the “observer” making sure your egg isn’t tarnished by poor code, exploited code. With a opensource project people start to copy you ripping your hard work as there own. You call them out while continuing your project maybe use you followers to help call them out. You continue working passionately, endlessly you want to let people in to help but you become unsure of there intentions is this for the good of the project. People slack so you let them go or give roles to other who will do the work. Those people can become spiteful for losing those positions. Start what the world know as drama to slow your work, people side with you and some may side with them. Your force to make important decision that could effect the project maybe even halt the project. You see code that is malicious, you are forced to call those people out. Your force to erase malicious code or even worse the code is let out into the community. You could lose follower, fellow coders, your project isn’t trusted anymore, or the worst thing of all receive a cease and desist/lawsuit and the project is ended in one sweep. Cyanogen has become more than a opensource project and honestly it has to close it door on people and watch others project because one screw up could end it all just as quickly. It evolve into a guild of sorts and needs to at times weed the bad blood out for the good of the community. So yes people will have ego.. You may feel ignored and want to contribute but be turned down.. Its part of the growth and evolution and I believe Steve Kondik(Cyanogen) is still headed in the right direction as long as he continues what hes doing.

  • In the epic words of Kat Williams “If you got 10 haters in the morning you better figure out how to make it 100 by night. If you are getting hated on, it means you are doing something right” – or something like that – but you get the idea…

  • Renee

    They chose their own name, knowing it would garner a reaction from people. Whether they’re nice people or not, they chose a name that can be very off-putting, especially online out of context, and especially to women I’ve talked to.

    • Benji (TheDude)

      Team Douche flushes out the bugs. I think it’s a very fitting name. I’m sorry if you’re easily offended. Would you prefer we have called ourselves TeamSafeword, or perhaps TeamSuperFriendlyHappyFunCrew? Every single woman I’ve talked to about it has been totally fine with the name. Perhaps what you need is a sense of humor.

      • Renee

        I’m actually not easily offended, and hadn’t even noticed the name previously, but a friend brought it up basically saying ‘I guess they’re not trying to attract females to support their team with that kind of name’ and I had to agree.

        My main point in this post was that you chose a name that’s “toeing the line” of offensiveness, so you deal with whatever backlash or assumption-of-your-douchiness you get from some people because of it, and you shouldn’t be surprised when some people react negatively to you because of it.

        That’s why someone has to write an article explaining “The people on Team Douche really aren’t douches”!

  • Jeagoss

    I’d like to know how we have done the “opposite” of what open source stands for. I’d also like to know who “demands” people kiss our feet.

    Do we douche on so called “developers”? Yes. We work to make sure attribution goes to the correct people and that code stays open. Want to release a kernel and say it is amazing? GPL says you have to release the source. Don’t release the source? Expect us to be there. Kanged some work and called it your own? *cough*BD*cough* Yes, we will be there to douche you.

    Want into #teamdouche? Start developing on something. Take up a full development position on cyanogenmod. Help the team in a way that is of benefit. Just don’t ask in. We are not being exclusive. We are bringing in who we need when we need them. Yes, there are some honorary members. We like them. ZOMG WE LIKE PEOPLE!! THE WORLD WILL END!! We have an efficient running team that gets things done. We just happen to be douchey also. Don’t like the fact that we are douchey? Please post your complaints in File 13.

    Do we respect other peoples work? Hell yes we do. There are people out there that we know for a fact we wouldn’t be where we are without. But, I’m personally not going to consider every person out there that says they are a dev an actual developer. Winzip does not quality anyone as a developer. I’m 100% sick and tired of the file pusher mentality that transfered to android from the Windows Mobile scene.

    Open source requires attribution and presentation of sources. Until that is learned, #teamdouche will continue to douche “developers”. #teamdouche will also continue to put out code, help advance cyanogenmod, and continue to be hated. Your hate drives us. Drives us to continue being better.

    • Well said.

      I was invited into teamdouche instantly after presenting my work. Who’d call that exclusive?

      • macs

        The problem is Alex a certain developer refused to join team douchebags and instantly was set upon by this pack like dogs. If you want to join team douche and they want you good for you and them, but if you don’t then you should be free to go your own way.

        • attn1


    • macs

      Jeagoss you directly took part in a campaign on twitter to remove another ROM developer from the community and that’s clearly anti open source. So don’t mention Kanging because even canogen kanged a few ROMs as everyone has at some stage.

      • kmobs

        uh.. we’eve never kanged a rom? We’ve been opensource since the beginning. There is NO other android project that is opensource like CM.

        • macs

          Everyone whos been around the Android modding scene knows Cyanogen Mod was originally a kang of JF’s roms.

          I have seen what team douche bags has down to other developers from flaming across several forums to campaigns of removal from forums and twitter. From direct insults and foul language outbursts, impersonations of devs on twitter to discredit them and even thinly veiled threats to those who argued the position of banned devs. This ugly group has blighted Android community.

  • me

    Ok I didn’t go to the bbq. I dont know team douche but I do know the android community. What they do is the best out there. Idc if they tell people that they suck. Cause we all have our thoughts. And as far as the bbq I am so sad I missed it. But there next year for sure. Oh and nobody cares your reading this site. So imo your just as much a geek as anyone there

  • counsel

    And people were surprised to find tweets and wall comments don’t let you get know anyone… These are the same peopke that use, or over-use, said social media…

    You don’t really get to know someone by yhe marketing they create.

    However, this opinion piece is so full of purple prose and brown-nose that I sit here wondering why, exactly, i should care…

    We know our real friends-those people we chose to interact with personally even though we often disagree. friends are not created by clicking “accept.”

  • kmobs

    Anyone care to let me know how we’re locking out developers? We’ve pretty much recruited every developer that actually codes (enom not included, but we LOVE him. srsly). Is there some field where developers frolic? I don’t see how releasing everything open source that we do and allowing code submission is locking anyone out?

    People that don’t know what they’re doing are the only ones that have a problem with us.

    • shanklin

      @kmobs I love what you guys do, it really is amazing. You said that the only people who have a problem with you are the people that dont know what they are doing. I understand that because I am not a dev. so I suppose I dont know what Im doing and maybe im taking this out of context but the people that dont know what they are doing are the majority of your users. We have questions and thats normal and sure all of them cant be answered but I think that a lot of people that hate on team douche are the people that follow you guys and love your work and admire what you do and then when they have a question, a simple sometimes dumb question, they are treated as less. This is something we humans do. If we have a skill that many do not have, we look down on others. Something I took away from this article/comments is that its not so easy to be a douche, but its really easy to act like one.

  • axe319

    Personally I have never considered team douche to be douchey.(outside of to ppl I would no doubt be the same) as for helping the community I have personally taken it on my self to learn java after first using cm.my only comment on the subject if you don’t like the work they do,do it yourself.great article ray!

  • Rob

    I considered it just a name. I use CM and I had no idea that people were badmouthing the team behind it. I know you think you just defended these guys, but honestly, you just elevated the controversy to a point where I had heard of it, and basically badmouthed them in order to defend them. The best thing to do about these kinds of things isn’t to bring it more attention, but to let it die.

  • kevin

    They do a lot for us. A real jerk would not have replied to me on twitter when I asked if he’d support the G2 a month ago. Steve and TD has 100,000 people downloading one form or another of CM and he’s still personable. Thats cool.

  • MrRossicoe

    I had no idea people hated on them to be honest… Maybe cuz I’m a huge fan? I guess it only makes sense though. When you’re the best at what you do you should expect to have numerous haters. But when the haters are talking crap and still running their Roms it defeats the purpose of said crap talk.

  • Aaron

    BigAndroidBBQ bigandroidbbq bigandroidbbq bigandroidbbq bigandroidbbq bigandroidbbq… get used to it haters it’s only going to get bigger and better! Don’t like it listen to your mom and keep your winning to yourself. The bigAndroidBBQ is THE Android event. Do you complain about people talking about IO? Suck it up, be an adult and drop the jealousy, that’s what EVERYONE is sick of hearing. #bigandroidbbq forever! Oh and I agree TD are brilliant caring people if you have not met them I challenge you to shut up and attend the next BBQ then you can make an EDUCATED decision.

  • @TheBrownWelsh

    anybody who develops for free and distributes to a community does not deserve to have insults hurled at them, whether they are a legitimate douche bag(s) or clever front.

    Dont like them? Dont partake of the fruit of their looms.

    Actions speak louder than words and whatnot.

  • macs

    Its doesn’t matter if team douche bags are a front and I am sure pretty much everyone including the so called haters are pretty nice guys in person.

    Firstly Team douchbags have every right to modify Android in any way they wish and everyone has a right to use their ROMs on their devices as they see fit. The problem with team douche is their aggression towards other developers who by the very nature of Android have the same rights as they do.

    The term hater is unwarranted and leaves the wrong impression probably deliberately of my post in the BBQ thread. I don’t hate anyone I just want to use another developers ROMS.

    As a group they have taken part in vindictive campaigns to oust other developers from important forums such as xda and twitter, including the developer of the ROMS I used. The fact that the only ROMs I can now get on xda are all based variants on CM6 and all independent ROM developers have been swallowed up by team douche or sidelined in the community. Android is no longer an open free community with a healthy ROM developer community.

    It was me who posted that I left Android because of team douches actions. I have jumped to webos which is a fantastic operating system though its nowhere near as feature rich as Android. However its modding and developer communities are not monopolised by adults acting like children. The Android developer community and team douche has two things at its core egos and donations. I loved Android, its the best mobile OS and if things return to a healthy state in the developer community I will come back but it seams unlikely that the snakes will leave the pit.


  • Benji


  • Lots of whining. Actions speak louder than words.. Peter, Founder Koowie.com